Saturday, February 17, 2007

Why Do We Really Want Men to Admit They're Wrong

Weight- 208
Exercise- some simple weight exercises
Calories- none so far today

So this post isn;t really about my weight, but I can't think about that 100% of the time!

I have a friend (male) who has a habit of being late. He doesn't really do it on purpose, it's just like he does all this other stuff that keep pushing back his arrival time until he finally walks in the door. He did this again this morning. Of course we got into a little bit of an argument over it, and he asked me "OK, you're right, you're right! Does that make it all better?" (or something like that, you get the point)

That is a valid question. If we already have an apology, why do we want to hear that we were right? Isn't the apology alone an admission of that? What does the "rightness" matter after that? Does it change what just happened? No. So what I realized is that the admission that we are right is something I really want when the offense is something the other person does regularly. And I don;t want theadmission that I am right because of some ego trip, or as some weird admission that it won;t happen again(because if it has already happen 110 time, why would we really expect the 111th will happen any differently?)

Really, it is just to make future arguments over that thing easier. It means that the next time we won't have to try to convince that person they were wrong, using debating skills worthy of the Harvard Debate Team to convince them just to issue the two little words "I'm sorry". It is because the next time(and hte 1000 times after that) they do that thing, whatever it happens to be, instead of arguing you can just say "Remember the last time this happened?" Get them to remember they told you you were right, and viola! We have an insta-apology. Just add water and stir. So the apologies are for the past, the admission of correctness is an investment for the future.


Marie said...

And I say, does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care - about time?

OK - this has nothing to do with admitting you are wrong, but it does have to deal with the issue of lateness. (Although it may bring into the questions of Paul's "wrongness" for being "late.")

My friend Michelle's mother told her that she thinks that people that are late a lot are very selfish and rude due to an article she once read on lateness. She and the article feel that the excuses late people have when they finally do arrive i.e. "oh I had to let the dog out, oh I had to finish icing the cookies I brought, oh I had to get my outfit ready..." are selfish in nature because if they really cared about the other person and being on time they would have planned and accounted for those thing before they had to leave to be on time. You should have let the dog out 15 minutes before you had to leave. You should have iced the cookies earlier that day. You should have picked your outfit out yesterday. They claim that people who are on time took their time to be prepared to be on time, and by you not thinking ahead so that you are on time is selfish and rude on your part.

I tend to be late things sometimes. However, I don't think it's a super huge bid deal if there isn't something that really has a time constrain on it. Like if we are just hanging out or just going to dinner or something and I have to drive to meet that person at his/her house, if I'm a little late is that really a crime? Now if we have a movie or a play or something that starts at a certain time, that's different. There IS a time constraint associated with that.

When my mom was a kid she said that my Grandfather would give a time that they were going to be leaving when they were going on a vacation. Now they weren’t flying to any of these vacations (something with a definite time constraint on it); they drove to all of their vacation destinations. If he said that they were to leave by 10:00am, and it became 10:05 he would start to get really mad. In fact he would get so mad that they weren’t leaving “on time” that he truly would become an ass. In fact on most occasions he would ruin the start of their vacation because he would get so upset. Over what? Five minutes, 10 minutes, half-hour, an hour? What did it really matter? And again I say, does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care - about time?

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J said...

i think that your attitude towards time is completely selfish and against etiquette. you are using your own standards and attitudes towards time and being on time and imposing them on other people who may and probably do not share those same attitudes towards time. the fact whether there is a time constraint or not is completely irrelevant to the issue and by making it part of the issue, you are once again projecting your own attitudes about time and constraints onto the other person.

An example of this is your grandfather. he had certain attitudes and feelings about time and the fact that those feelings and attitudes were not respected by his children, exhibited by their being late, shows that they did not care about his attitudes and feelings and thus, were being completely selfish and against etiquette by being late. etiquette is about making other people feel comfortable and by projecting your own attitudes about time onto other people who do not share those same attitudes, you are not making them feel comfortable. if you were really unselfish you would respect their attitudes about time, regardless of constraints, because you wanted to make them feel comfortable.

again, you state 'I don't think it's a super huge bid deal if there isn't something that really has a time constrain on it.' but other people might obviously think it's a big deal and by not respecting that, you are being selfish and against etiquette.

i didn't think looking through other people's mail was selfish or against etiquette, i was just curious and thought no big deal, i wouldn't care if they went through my mail, so no big deal. but i was projecting my own attitudes about the situation onto other people and they obviously did not share those same feelings. if i had really been unselfish and practiced etiquete, i would have respected their attitudes about the matter, even if i didn't agree, and i wouldn't have looked through their mail because i wanted them to feel comfortable.

you are doing exactly the same thing about time that i did about mail. your whole statement 'does anybody really care - about time?' is totally you projecting your own beliefs about time onto other people. what if i said 'does anybody really care - about who looks through their mail?' some people obviously do really care about time and who looks through their mail and by not respecting the fact that they care about these things, you are being selfish.

ps - thanks for the etiquette book, i wouldn't have been able to see this if not for the realizations i came to from the wisdom in that book. thanks again.

Marie said...

Geez, J. You don’t have to live like a refugee…

Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is? By Chicago

As I was walking down the street one day
A man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was
on my watch, yeah, And I said

Does anybody really know what time it is
(I don't) Does anybody really care
(care) If so I can't imagine why
(about time) We've all got time enough to cry
Oh no, no

And I was walking down the street one day
A pretty lady looked at me and said her diamond watch had
stopped cold dead, And I said

Does anybody really know what time it is
(I don't) Does anybody really care
(care) If so I can't imagine why
(about time) We've all got time enough to cry
Oh no, no

And I was walking down the street one day
Being pushed and shoved by people trying to beat the clock,
oh, so I just don't know,
I just don't know
And I said, yes I said

Background Vocal:
People runnin' everywhere
Don't know the way to go
Don't know where I am
Can't see past the next step
Don't have to think past the last mile
Have no time to look around
Just run around, run around and think why

Does anybody really know what time it is
(I don't) Does anybody really care
(care) If so I can't imagine why
(about time) We've all got time enough to die
Oh no, no

Marie said...

PS. Didn't I also say in my post that not being on time/preparing a head of time was selfish and rude? I thought I did...

Didn't say anyone was right or wrong. Just giving different view points from all sides - I thought. Just trying to point out that maybe being a little forgiving on a few minutes could save some people from getting all stressed out. Ya know, like when there's 2 minutes left in the quarter...

J said...

no, you said michelle's mother had those feelings, you never specified that you shared those feelings as well. and i also agree with you that a little bit of leeway may be good as far as time goes, but again, to impose that on other people is bad etiquette.

Marie said...

I agree with you.

Ahhh, but what is the "etiquette responsibility" towards a person that is late? Doesn't good etiquette dictate that you still make the late person feel comfortable? Etiquette reciprocity!

Paul said...

I can see how a woman might find validation in a man's admitting that he's wrong. It works the same way for men with women. But it's difficult for men to admit it, just like it's difficult for us to apologize. our first instinct is to attack as defense and make the other person feel guilty about being angry.

But what you're saying is that you keep filing things away in your memory to use later. Something women have always done, that men think is wrong. Bringing up old arguments that no longer have anything to do with current situations. It's a very good women's trick, especially if men don't remember it happening. Which we usually don't.

... said...

..also maybe, just maybe to analyse WHY? atleast it is in part for me...
i've been wronged - ok, but WHY???

oh and of-course :
"Really, it is just to make future arguments over that thing easier. "
..adding water and stiring - so much easier than having to actually agrue each time!

pssttt,love the idea of an blog to help lose weight-has it helped?
i need to lose weight. LOADS. and fast!

Vox Populi said...


I'm following your blog with keen interest. I read pretty much every post on idontneedyouanymore. I really liked the name and the picture of the girl staring has always intrigued me.

Anyway, I too am striving to get healthy and in shape. I'm 250 lbs 6'1" and eat way too much junk food that's going to make my 60's suck. So I've decided enough is enough and I'm getting in shape.

Heres to you reaching size 8 and me reaching Levi's Jean size of 36!